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Some of you may have become familiar with Storm Large when she was a contestant (and finalist) for lead singer on 2006’s Rockstar Supernova, which, according to Wikipedia, was “a reality television-formed supergroup consisting of drummer Tommy Lee (Mötley Crüe), bassist Jason Newsted (Voivod and ex-Metallica), and guitarist Gilby Clarke (ex-Guns N’ Roses).” As many of you know, Storm has continued to build a name for herself as an independent musician, stage performer, and, soon, as a novelist. Storm’s 2009 one-woman show, Crazy Enough, which featured the song “8 Miles Wide,” was a smash hit, with all shows sold out.
On April 30, 2010, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Storm Large and TNB contributor Quenby Moone at a local taco joint here in Portland. Storm, who showed up in a pair of jeans and a well-worn white hoodie, sans makeup, was gorgeous, gregarious, generous of spirit, foul mouthed like a long-haul trucker, well-spoken, and hilarious. Storm gave me over an hour of her time, answering any question I asked with tremendous honesty peppered with frequent F-bombs. We discussed her music, sex, her recovery from a heroin addiction, growing up with a mentally ill mom, her book, the future of the publishing industry, sexism in the music industry, boob jobs, an amazingly simple recipe for pot candy, and so much more.
In this, the first of two installments of my interview with Storm Large, we discuss social networking, punk rock, why people hate her for being a woman, and Prince.
GH: I’ve been writing for The Nervous Breakdown since January, but I’ve been associated with it for years – as a commenter. So, to finally start meeting these people who I’ve only known online is kind of weird (referring to Quenby.) Do you have any online associations?
SL: I have no online associations. Oh! Wait! I do! I have a few friends who do web stuff for me. I’ve met them all except one, who lives in Germany. And I know what she looks like and I talk to her and I kind of get her personality. But I’ve never met her. And pretty much that’s it. I’m not a Luddite but I prefer flesh and blood communication. When I do Facebook and stuff like that, it’s all about, “Hey, I went and saw this movie,” or, “Hey I’m gonna play this show.” I don’t know; I don’t use it for social networking or meeting people or dating.
I would imagine you don’t have as much trouble with that as maybe most people?
Well, it’s kind of my job to fill a room full of people and make them love me. So, with that, I really have big walls and boundaries. I’m very, very friendly, warm and accessible, but I don’t have a lot of really close friends. Quenby is probably my best friend. And her husband is one of my best friends. We can all have varying degrees of relationships. But, the online thing, I think I’m just…I’m just old enough to be suspicious of that. You know, younger people are like, “Oh yeah, totally. We met online, we’re Facebook friends and we’re going to meet at this party. We’re going to have flash mobs.” Whatever. I mean everybody’s online now. But I still feel like people who rely on the internet and electronic communication for their RELATIONSHIPS and for their bonding experiences to other human beings, to me it still kind of describes a very specific personality, a more introverted person that I wouldn’t really want to hang out with anyway. I mean… I don’t know… I like people. And I hate people. But I want to be near them, and smell them, and sniff ‘em out. Because I’m kind of distrusting. It’s like everyone online is on their first date and are putting out their funniest, their best; they can be anything they want.
Well you can’t see the facial expressions. And you can’t hear the tone of voice. And you can’t see the tic.
Yeah! You can’t see the human ears on their desk.
You can’t see their club foot online.
Yeah! You can’t see the Borderline Personality.
Well, that’s hard to hide. That eventually comes out.
That eventually comes out, but online, the voices can be like, “Don’t type now. You’re too crazy right now.”
[pause – Storm starts singing “Hot Blooded” by Foreigner]
Do you break into song a lot?
No. I don’t. I try not to. And I hate it when people invite me to karaoke. People are like (in dramatic Valley Girl voice), “Oh god! Storm! You should totally go to karaoke! It’s so amazing!” And I’m like, “Hey! No way! You work in a café. You should come to my house and just make coffee. That would be awesome. Just keep doing it over and over and over again.”
I’d like to hear more about your book. Is it written?
No, I’m working on it. It’s a memoir. Nonfiction.
Do you already have a publisher?
Yes, I do. Free Press at Simon and Schuster.
What can you say about it?
I’ve submitted the first hundred pages and I’m working on the next hundred pages. And we’re just doing it in acts and increments.
Is it similar to your stage show? I mean as far as content?
As far as content yes. But it’s not going to be called “Crazy Enough.” It’s about growing up with a mentally ill parent and believing you’re going to be mentally ill and you’re going to kind of lose your mind at any moment. And basically discovering that everyone’s kind of fucked up in some way. And it’s whether you decide you’re fucked up or it’s just who you are and how you deal with it. And how you work with it so that it’s a positive and not necessarily a death sentence.
In researching you for this interview, I saw multiple times in multiple places where you talk about growing up with a mentally ill parent and your fears surrounding your own mental well being. I’m just wondering: at what point did those fears really go to bed?
Oh they haven’t. They’re not as acute as they used to be. When I was doing drugs and I was in a really dark place in my life –
And that was in your mid-twenties?
Yeah – early twenties. I really thought that I was going to go crazy. Or that I had gone crazy and I was just starting to see the manifestations of it. Panic attacks. Palpitations. Hallucinations. I was hallucinating. But I was doing heroin and speed and I was not sleeping – and you’re gonna hallucinate. I mean, I know that now. But when I was younger I thought, wow. This is what it feels like. And maybe…maybe I need to die. Maybe I need to die. And as soon as the thought of “maybe I should die” happened, I started to swing up out of it. Because my mother was always trying to kill herself and to me that was the ultimate expression of madness –- trying to kill yourself. That’s what she did. And I hated her for it. And that’s why I was like, no matter how bad shit ever gets I will never kill myself. At least not on purpose. So as soon as that thought actually became clear in my head – if you died, you wouldn’t feel this way – that’s when I started to put on the brakes inside my own head. I said no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. This isn’t where we’re ending up.
Was it hard to make that lifestyle change and remain in the music scene? Especially because you were in San Francisco?
It was before I was in music. Actually, music got me out of drugs because my dope became people in front of me going [makes a face]. Seriously. It’s not rock and roll to admit, but my job now is to fill rooms full of people and get them to love me. And some of them don’t. But a lot of them do. And that’s why I was doing drugs. And that’s why I was fucking strangers and that’s why I was being such a shit. Because I grew up believing nobody loved me. And so I did anything, anything, anything to feel like anybody loved me just for a minute. And heroin especially makes you feel like you’re loved and everything’s fine. And you rarely do heroin by yourself. I mean, lifers do – super lifers do. But in general you have a partner. Or there’s a community of other people – a small collection. And I was connected with this one person. And there was this body near me and we were feeling this…I was feeling this euphoria. I mean, he was a hideous human being. But brilliant. He was so brilliant. And I thought if he loved me… If I could get him to love me, I would really be worth something. And he just…it was awful.
That seems to be common, actually – especially among young women. Which brings up a question I wanted to ask. Several things, actually, made me want to ask this question. One is, I read that you used to write an advice column for Exotic magazine called “What’s Your Fucking Problem?”
Yeah, I wrote under a nom de plum. Demi Mondaine.
[laugh]
I knew you’d get it. Smart people get it. People are like, “Demi Mondaine. Is that like Demi Moore, but mundane?” “No, it means ‘whore’ in French, but that’s cool.”
That is awesome.
Isn’t that a hot name?
Yeah. It would make a great porn star name.
Yeah. So, yes What’s Your Fucking Problem.
Did you come up with that?
Of course I did! Because I – am brilliant! [laughs] Just kidding.
Then, I recently read a Salon.com article about the hook up culture, and about young women in our society, and about the idea of how hooking up has changed over the years. And how it’s hard to define what’s hooking up and what’s not. Like, is it a relationship if you give a blow job? And it was fascinating to see that dialogue being had. And then, your stage presence, your public persona, is so sexual and you obviously have a very healthy perspective on sex. And so, my question to you is: what advice would you give to a fifteen year old girl about sex? Or have you given?
Advice to a fifteen year old girl: don’t have sex with fifteen year old boys if you want to have decent sex…Um…You know, all I can think of is what I would say to my fifteen year old self. If I were a grown up and I was talking to my fifteen year old self: You have no idea how beautiful you actually are. And how…much pain you are asking for by…limiting yourself to this form of expression. I love to fuck. I have loved fucking since I was thirteen years old. I’ve enjoyed it. For the wrong reasons, for the right reasons, for whatever you’ve got. But nowadays, it’s really become so much more casual than even when we were young. And I think it’s probably a whole lot of elements coming together at the same time – like what we were talking about before with the mass communication and the…really the indifference of internet communication and the ability to create your own false idea. And you can – sexting – and everything’s so separate, and the actual connection – the sexual connection – is even more shallow than before. So, I don’t know. It’s such a different world that I don’t feel like I could give advice to a modern fifteen year old. ‘Cause it’s not my world at all anymore. Really. You meet someone and you’re like, “Wow. Wanna?” and then you’re in the bathroom. Or you’re drunk and you’re next to me. Or, wow! You have coke and a place to stay. Perfect trifecta: dick, coke, bed. Woooo! You’re my dream date! So honestly I don’t think I could. If they ask me something specific, I could try – based on something I see in them at that exact moment about what they’re asking. But in general? I don’t think I could speak to modern teenagers.
Yeah. That all makes sense.
And, I’m not a parent. I don’t have my own child. I lack that access to what they’re experiencing in school. I think you guys [points to Quenby and me] have way more experience with what’s going on with school-age children and beyond. Your kids are getting to that age where they’re around middle school kids. And you’re hearing the language and meeting other parents who have twelve to eighteen year olds. And you’re like, “Oh, fuck. Oh my god.” For me, at this point, knowing what I know – if I had a kid, I’d have a tiled room with a drain in the middle of the floor and maybe a rubber mat that they could sleep on. And they would just…stay there. And I would come and I would read to them and teach them to read, and they could just stay in the tiled room. And they’d be clean! But there is a backlash, I think, in the uber-communication thrust in the uber-high tech thrust of everything. It’s like, what the fuck is the iPad but a big, breakable iPhone? There’s no point to it. So gadgets are just kind of coming out for gadgetry’s sake. But the backlash, I think, is slow food – the restaurant business here and people gathering together in actual physical contact communities. Book clubs, and writers groups, and more physical minded communities that are happening in the twenty-something to forty-something set. And art and music and live interaction. Internet and television and electronic media are still used to promote to push those things.
Like the way you said you use those things.
I absolutely rely on it for advertising and to sell and market myself. But as far as social networking, I rely on my own social skills. My hard won social-fucking-skills. Which are questionable. But that’s kind of coming back – you see it in the service industry. You see it in music and entertainment. I mean the internet is a part of it, but it’s actually an enhancement of actual physical connection with humans. ‘Cause we need that. Humans are tribal creatures. We’re community-minded creatures and we need to gather. We need to gather, and we need to rub up against each other at some point.
QUENBY MOONE: Sniff butts.
SL: Sniff butts!
I think it will be interesting to see, when today’s young people are in their twenties, how technology has transformed and how it’s affecting the literary culture.
I really think that the Kindle and that kind of thing is affecting the physical creation of [art]. You know, coming up in the musical industry where you needed to get signed. And you needed to get a record deal and you needed to have a record label. And I never had a deal or a label ever in the twenty years I’ve been an independent musician. And the internet has sold my music forever – when it was physical CDs all the way to when it became MP3s. And now MP3s have completely trashed the old dinosaur version of the record industry and made it more in the hands of the artist. So, yes it cost some jobs on one side, but it creates jobs on another side. Same with the Kindle. Same with The Huffington Post. The Daily Beast. The Drudge Report. The newyorktimes.com. The printed book and the tactile industries are going to suffer, but everyone’s still going to want a thing to touch and hold. And there’s going to be a market for that. It’s changing, for sure.
Would you say it’s changing for better or for worse? Or is it a lateral change?
I think it’s lateral. Just change for change sake. It’s going to suck for some people – because some people don’t respond to change really well. And some people who are kind of on the edge of things. I’m lucky because I make art. I make art and I can do it anywhere. I don’t need to make my money by making a physical disc to sell. I can make an MP3 to sell. The money is real and the music is just this electronic data that goes anywhere I want it to go.
So that’s empowering.
It’s very empowering. I wouldn’t be able to afford this fantastic meal without it.
You mentioned just now that everybody was telling you to get a record deal. From what I read, you left the music scene in San Francisco because you were just fed up with the whole god damned thing. You were like, “Fuck this. I’m out of here. I’m going to be a chef.” But then I read – and I found this interesting – that when you happened into this great opportunity to go on Rockstar Supernova – which is fun – I mean, I would do it!
But I’d been playing music again for four years before Rockstar came along.
But then, what’s interesting is that you were saying that when you got that opportunity, people were telling you you’re a sell out. And I thought: are these the same people who were telling you to get a deal? Because those messages are so opposing – and how do you even deal with that crap?
The people that tell you you’re selling out aren’t going to line up to pay your mortgage, so they can suck it. When I got a boob job, I had lesbians come up to me telling me that I was destroying my goddess body. Whereas, I would look at them and they would have so many fucking piercings in their face, they looked like a god damned tackle box – jangling at me with their bullshit. And I’m like, “Are you kidding me? What did you do to your body?” Just because it’s punk rock. Have you ever seen a boob job on the surgery channel? That is fucking punk rock! I got my pectoral muscle filleted and I got stuffed with bags of saline through my nipples! Suck it! That’s punk rock! And now they’re awesome.
You do have very nice boobs.
Thanks! They’re not that big!
QM: Yes, but they really fill out dresses nicely.
SL: They do.
Right. So I just found it interesting that you had people telling you to get a deal, and then you sort of get a deal and people were complaining. And I would be like, “What do you fucking want from me?” Do you ever feel like that? Like: What do you want me from me?
Right. Yeah. Well, in San Francisco, and I’ve noticed especially in Portland, there is a very small, very loud circle of people that if you’re trying to become successful – as an actor, as an artist, as a musician – and you have a modicum of success, you suck. The Portland Mercury was the first paper in town to write about The Balls. And they wrote about us; they wrote about me, saying: Guess why you’re not cool? It’s because you’ve never seen this amazing thing that’s going on down at Dante’s for one dollar. It’s when we were charging nothing to get in. And The Mercury was like: this is the coolest thing you’ve never heard of and you suck because you’ve never seen Storm Large. They were the first people to write. And now, oh my god. I show up to save a kitten from a tree, and I’m doing it for attention. You know, it’s like: Storm Large is a sell out! They just talk shit about me – because I guess it’s really cool to hate someone who’s popular.
Do you read your own press?
Unfortunately, I do sometimes. And sometimes, it’s really painful. And sometimes I read it to make sure it’s accurate – especially if it’s about a certain political situation. Something I’m endorsing or something I’m passionate about. I want to make sure they get everything correct. And sometimes I read stuff that’s just downright mean. Spiteful. And personally attacking and making assumptions on my character that aren’t true. And just hateful. And it hurts. It actually really does hurt a lot.
What do you do with that? Where do you put that?
I cry. I talk to friends. This last time in The Portland Mercury, they wrote… Uh, a specific guy who, for some reason, really hates my guts. And he wrote an out-and-out lie about me. And so I wrote to the paper. I’ve raised money for their charities before. And I really like Stephen Humphrey, who runs the paper. And I think there are some really great writers who work for them. But for some reason, this guy just fucking hates my guts; and he wrote something that was completely untrue. A couple of months ago, he wrote that I demanded top billing at a benefit, in exchange for my exorbitant fee. Which is bullshit. I was asked to headline a benefit. And so he wrote this thing that was really inflammatory and untrue and uncool. And a lot people wrote in and said, “What the fuck is your problem?” And then this last one, he wrote that I took money from these people I disagree with – my political foes or something. And someone’s gotta get paid and I have no respect for Storm Large because she takes money from…something. But it was untrue. And so I wrote him a letter and I said, “Hey, just so you know what you wrote wasn’t true. And I understand you hate my guts. And that’s cool. But if you’re going to talk shit – which you do so well – just make sure it’s true.” And so he wrote a caveat that said, “Oh, it turns out that Storm just got a bottle of Maker’s Mark for her trouble. I stand corrected.” But – he had already…the damage was done. And people who read that who don’t know me…
And who don’t read the follow up story…
Yeah. They could be like: what a cunt. Oh my god. She acts like she’s so nice but she’s such a bad person! And what [the writer for The Mercury] doesn’t know is that I like to kill kittens with syringes full of bleach. And if he knew that – wow! Would he have some ammo!
I like how in the last ten minutes, you mention saving kittens and killing kittens with bleach.
QM: She saves the kittens so that she can store them in her basement to kill later.
SL: Because Storm Large giveth, and Storm Large taketh away. No. But, I deal with it. You know, when you’re a public person, people are going to hate your guts for no other reason than they heard your name. People hate me because they think it’s a fake name. People hate me because I’m a woman.
I was going to mention the woman thing!
Isn’t it weird that I’m a woman? Have you seen my hands?
You know what they say about women with eight mile wide hands?
And don’t you forget it, baby!
I read somewhere that for your stage show, you wanted to use a David Bowie song. David Bowie – like the drug abusing, raunchy David Bowie.
Bisexual.
Yeah, yeah. Right. But his label said that you were too sexualized or something?
That I was too sexually irresponsible.
And that just stood out for me. I thought, “Because she’s a woman?” We’re talking about a David Bowie song. We’re not talking about a Barry Manilow song. And I know. I’m not naïve – I know that it’s just the fucking way it is. But I’m just like…Ugh! Did that just incense you?
No. Because I didn’t take it as sexism, I took it as a huge irony. I’ll give you another irony: I was playing at Dante’s. Prince was in town. And Prince’s management was looking for a place. Because whenever Prince plays a show, he’ll go to a little club and jump up on stage and do another show. That guy is amazing. He’ll play all night long and it’s always incredible. And it’s always amazing.
So you’ve met him?
No. I’ve seen him do these small gigs. Because I can’t afford the nine thousand dollars to go and see him at the big garden festivals. But I’ve been at the DNA in San Francisco and I saw him in an 800 person theater where you’re just like: Holy shit. And he just played for three hours and I knew he was going to play for another three hours and sing his ass off and play guitar. He’s incredible! So, he was going to do that in Portland. And he had heard – or his people had heard – there’s this woman and she plays downtown and she’s amazing and maybe we should go there and have our after-party. And then Prince can get up on stage after her. So, the manager comes in. They’re getting the club ready. They’re cordoning off a certain part of the club for Prince’s entourage to come and see the show. Well the manager – who’s a woman – comes in just in time to see me having a pissing match with someone in the balcony. And they were talking shit. And I was talking shit. And they were talking shit. And I was talking shit. Then they threw ice at me. And I picked up the piece of ice. And I stuck it down my pants and I rubbed it across my butthole – and then I threw it back at them. And I’m like, “Suck on that, you fucktard!” And I’m screaming at them. Meanwhile, the manager – Prince’s manager – leans over to the bartender and goes, “Is she always this crass?” And the bartender says, “Uh, yeah.” And the manager asks, “Can you tell her to tone it down?” And the bartender laughed and said, “You can try?” And so Prince was… Well, I don’t know if Prince ever heard my name. But his people were like, “We are not coming here.”
QM: The lovely “Darling Nicky.”
SL: Yeah! Prince taught me how to finger fuck girls.
QM: But he can’t come see you.
How to masturbate.
Come? Hi. Come? Get on, cream. Get on top. But –- I doubt Prince ever even heard about it. His manager was just like, “No. We’re not letting him come here.”
***
Come back next week for Part II of my interview with Storm Large, wherein we discuss Storm’s views on feminism, every possible euphemism for a woman’s girl parts, Sarah Palin, werewolves, and how to make simple candy out of marijuana.
Special thanks to photographer Laura Domela for allowing us to use her images of Storm Large. To see more of Laura’s work, please visit her website: www.domela.com/.
Graphic design for the CD cover of Ladylike courtesy of Quenby Moone.
“Because Storm Large giveth, and Storm Large taketh away.”
Gloria, this is great. Wish I was there watching you guys chew the fat.
And as far as bona fides go, all this stuff about Supernova and Tommy Lee pales in comparison to the fact that SL is best friends with QB.
Storm is inexhaustible. I took a very long lunch break from work to conduct this interview. After nearly an hour and a half of chatting, I was ready to lie down and take a nap. Storm, though, (and Quenby, now that I think about it) was totally fresh faced and ready to keep chatting. It was fun. So fun.
You should see SL and QM together. Storm is six feet (maybe a bit taller?) and Quenby is…not. I don’t know how tall she is, but I could see the top of her head and I’m 5′ 5″. They’re hilarious together.
This was a really fun day.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Quenby, so I know what you mean. “A hoot,” is how I described her. She’s great.
I agree. Quenby Moone is a hoot. Perfect.
Man I am riveted!!!
…Want PART TWO Pronto!
You asked all the best questions that got her talking about all the juicy stuff…I love it! I’m so interested in her now, that I can’t wait for the Memoir either!
Part two will come out a week from now. 🙂 Same bat time, same bat channel.
Heh. It’s not incredibly hard to get Storm to open up. I mean, I only met her this one time, but I think I may not be out of line for guessing that.
She is very interesting, for sure, Laura. Thank you for reading.
Funny…
This interview only reinforces the stereotype I have been developing for the entertainers you see and hear about in the press…
…that they’re not just hamburger being chewed up to be spit out. An “interestingly” large percentage of these people like Storm are actually extremely smart, very aware people who are driving their own bus.
This being in direct contrast to the popular stereotype that they’re merely toy bimbos who got lucky.
kudos, Gloria, on a very interesting piece.
By the way, if your intention by shaving your head was to de-sexualize yourself, you failed, miserably. Just so you know.
I would guess that some celebrities – like all people – are not actually extremely smart, very aware people who are driving their own bus. Some are just lucky. Sometimes, too, that bus they’re driving had its brakes cut and they’re careening down the highway in a drunken fog. But, I would also guess that you might be right for the most part. Sometimes celebrity is a matter of dumb luck or being the fastest sperm out of two million, but in order to be successful in any field, you have to be more than lucky most of the time.
SL does seem to be driving her own bus, though. I got the exact same impression.
Thanks for reading. And thanks for the compliment. 😉
This is so fun! I love balls-out mouthy women with something to say.
I am really very envious that the three of you got hang out for a couple of hours. I bet it was non-stop laughter.
I’m elated that you decided to do this Gloria, it turned out so well. I can’t wait for part 2.
It was pretty fun. It would have been pretty rad if you’d’ve been there. I’m sure the interview would have been much, much longer. And probably dirtier.
I can’t wait for part II either. Thanks again for all of your help. (Please let me know when you get tired of me gushing appreciation all over you. Heh.)
Oh my God, this is awesome! I wish I’d been in America to see her on Rockstar Supernova… Gloria, this is my favourite interview I’ve read for quite some time. Great questions, great responses, and you got Quenby, too?
Bam.
I’m so jealous of your day.
Quenby, God bless her, very generously offered to attend when she heard that I was going to be doing this interview. I’ll bet I would have been much more nervous if she hadn’t been there. She’s a sweety. Did you get to meet her when she was in NY?
You’re jealous of my day? That’s quite a statement coming from a guy who just got to come to America and drive across my country, seeing more states than I’ve ever seen, and meeting a huge number of people I wish I’d met. 🙂
Sure did get to meet Lady Q!
Awesome interview! I love to read interviews with an artist that really delve into what they are like as a person, not just as an artist. Nicely done. I saw Storm Large and the Balls once in a really small bar in Hood River, Oregon. She ROCKED! It was rad. 🙂
Thanks, Camille! Part II will be posted next week. Be sure to check back. (Or, you know, wait for the email I’ll inevitably send you.)
I like the format. It give a better feel for where things are coming from then the standard Rolling Stone questions. Nice work.
Thanks, David. This is standard TNB interview format. I agree that they’re onto something. Megan DiLullo and Listi were instrumental in making sure this was formatted right. This is great feedback. Thanks for reading.
Well done, G. I loved reading this. Storm Large seems particularly awesome. I had never heard of her before this interview. I can’t wait to read the rest of it! (:
You just wait, you. Some day I’m interviewing YOU for TNB. Don’t worry, I’ll be ready with a bottle of Benadryl (for the hives), and a large animal tranquilizer gun (for the nerves). I’ve got you covered.
Hahahahahaha! You totally know how to handle shy and socially inept folks like myself, good woman. If it’s cheaper, beer will work too. Copious amounts of chest hive-reducing alcohol are the only reason I’m married today. (:
Alcohol: Bringing families together since 4000 B.C.
“Here’s to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.” ~Homer Simpson.
Incidentally, what’s with the backwards smiley? I’ve seen this a few times lately. Is it A Thing? Is it new? Does it mean something different? I can’t keep up with what the kids are doing now that I don’t have Facebook anymore.
You know how you just want to add a smiley to your comment, in the “take this in a friendly, mellow, I’m okay, you’re okay” sort of way, but then you make the usual sayin’-it-with-a-smile emoticon, and TNB automatically turns it into the intense glowing yellow guy smile, which is totally not how you meant it? Well if you make it backwards, the software doesn’t turn it into the insanely happy smiley. That’s all. You’re still keeping up with the kids as well as this old lady.
P.S. NOBODY is going to take my smileys away. NOBODY. Nor my hugs and kisses! I don’t care how old I get, or how ridiculous I am for typing them! Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha! xoxoxoxoxoxoxxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo. (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:
You show ’em, Tawni! You outsmart that computer!!
That totally makes sense, too. I get it. It’s the difference between drawing a stick figure and having a fully animated character. A stick figure is charming, as is a stick smiley. It’s quaint. It’s the difference between saying hello in a quiet, inside voice and having it shouted at you through a bullhorn.
Fight the power, mama. 🙂
Storm is so amazing. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall during this interview. You’ve done a great job so far and I can’t wait to read part deaux! Love.
Thanks, Ashley. Er…I mean New Orleans Lady. 😉
Gloria,
How in the world did you get access to this person?
How did you even know who she was?
You give a good interview; you certainly got her talking!
I’m missing the pop culture part of my brain, I guess, as well as the sports part.
Oh well, such is my life.
Hi Irene,
I was familiar with Storm Large because I’m a Portlander and she’s probably our most famous celebrity. Rockstar Supernova started the buzz (I mean, she and her Balls were already a must-see act, but Rockstar put her on the radar for everyone else). Then when she did her one-woman show, Crazy Enough, everyone was talking about her. I really wanted to go and see it, but it was always sold out and I am poor. The show closed late last year.
My birthday was in April and a friend of mine bought me a ticket to see Storm Large and The Balls at Dante’s downtown and since I was unable to see her stage show, I was into the idea even though it was a school night! And it was amazing. The room was packed. The energy was great. I had a fabulous time and fell in love with Storm and I thougt, “I’m going to get an interview with her.” I also had a four beers and was feeling brave, so I passed off my name and phone number and TNB’s URL and then I followed up with an email the next day. I just got lucky, really. Luckier still that Quenby is her good friend.
I’m definitely not missing the pop culture part of my brain. But sports? I’m right there with you. I’ve tried to care about sports. But I just…don’t.
Thanks for reading, Irene.
Really good stuff, Gloria. Would have liked to have been sitting in the next booth pretending to leaf through the Times. Especially like Storm’s skewering of the notion of “selling out”, one of my personal favorite hypocrisies. Also makes me wish I’d checked out an episode of Supernova. Waiting on pt. 2.
Part II of the conversation is even greater. She goes into a long rant about feminism, calling out some of my favorite hypocrisies.
The selling out thing… Yeah. She says it right. Talking to her, I just really got the impression that she’s got a shit ton of integrity in her foundation. Which was refreshingly stellar. (Stellarly refreshing?)
fascinating interview! and i never even heard of storm (which isn’t saying much).
looking forward to part 2!
Did you watch her in any of the links, Angela? The gal has presence. And she puts on a hell of a show.
Part 2 in a week!
Thank you for reintroducing Storm Large into my life.
Your welcome, Palmtreesplease, if that is your real name…
Thanks for reading.
I love her honesty. Great job with the interview, Gloria, asking interesting questions and having fun with the interview. Love it when Quenby pipes up a couple of times. Can’t wait to read Part 2. The story about Prince and his manager was hilarious.
Also, I can’t decide if I like the first photograph or the Ladylike cover better. They’re both amazing.
Lastly: I love the answer about breast augmentation. Seriously, why is one sort of body alteration cool and not another? It’s complete hypocrisy. And yes, I’m a dude, so my opinion doesn’t count. Which is why I’m glad she said it.
You know Quenby did the cover art for Ladylike, right? Laura Domela took the picture, of course, but Q did all the layout and whatnot.
The breast augmentation defense is a good one, for sure. Will Entrekin sort of called me out on the same thing on my first TNB post, Satisfaction Won’t Buy You a Boob Job. My profile picture at the time (before I lost my mind and shaved my head) was a black and white photo that showed my back tattoos. He said something to the effect of “doesn’t that also count as body modification?” It was the first time I’d thought of it that way, and it was a great perspective changer for me. I mean, there’re still the questions of pandering to patriarchy and loving yourself for who you are and yada yada yada. And I still get all that. But if I wasn’t convinced before this interview, I was convinced afterward. Now all I need is 6 to 10 thousand dollars that I don’t need to spend on anything else and I’m set! I’ll be that nerdy girl who was mousy before but then suddenly became hot! And then, like a Hollywood movie, I’ll have to find a handsome love interest to fall in love with, only to discover that he loved me all along for who I am!! It’ll be sweet.
Seriously, though. I’m totally getting a boob job. I even walked away from the table at this interview with the name and number of Storm’s guy.
I didn’t know that about the artwork. Well, kudos to Quenby! Now I like it even more.
Yes, I was a part of that comment thread with Will. And I agreed with him. But again, when you’re a guy who can’t believably support the idea of augmentation without seeming selfish about it. I was with a girl that had them once, and of course I wanted her to, but she came to her decision all by herself. I’d have felt guilty if I had tried to sway her at all.
$10,000? I thought $6K was pushing it. Are yours going to be filled with liquid gold?
I know I’m in the minority here, but I really don’t like boob jobs. Totally prefer them au natural.
@Richard – they are currently filled with liquid gold. It’s the gold removal/saline injection that ups the price. Kind of like when you remove the old oil heating tanks from your home to install central heating?
Okay, I’ll admit: I’ve never actually priced it. But still, $6,000 might as well be a million. I’ve got kids to feed and shit (which was cheaper when my boobs were big from breastfeeding – which, ironically, is what caused them to be in the sad shape they’re in now.)
Question: your lady love that got the boob job – I assume you had hands on access both prior to as well as after the surgery? What were the differences? I’m plotting data points here. This is for science, so be honest.
First, I see in your post you credited Quenby for the artwork. Nice of me to miss that. Ha.
As far as the data points, she had them below the muscle, which makes them look more realistic. Also, you have to be religious about the post-op exercises, which means moving the implants around periodically so the scar tissue forms around a larger area. This gives them room to move, which means in the long run they feel more natural and move more naturally. These exercises hurt, and it helps to have someone else do it for you. For my part, it was difficult to do because she was in obvious pain. But think about it: It’s pain every few hours for a couple of weeks in exchange for years of more natural-looking breasts.
And yeah, I suppose it’s incredibly unpopular to say, but properly-done implants are a joy from the guy’s side. For many of us, anyway. Aesthetically they are usually perfect. Perfect natural breasts are the best, but how many people have those? Almost no one?
And my lady love gained a lot of personal confidence from them because she was always sensitive to clothes not fitting properly and not seeming feminine enough. That was the most important benefit of all. She got them for the right reasons. The rest was icing on the cake. 🙂
I didn’t know about the exercises. That might influence my
completely far fetcheddecision.My goal is to have them through my 30s and 40s and then sometime in my 50s get them removed. Because I don’t want to be that wrinkly old lady with perfectly perky boobs. But if I get 20 years of above-and-beyond my usual boob-related entertainment out of them, then it’s worth it. 😀
Women handle pain better than men do, I understand. You’ll be fine. Not a reason not to get them. Like I said, you’ll forget about it quickly, but you’ll still have the breasts.
I couldn’t do it. I would never do it.
I’m totally that one girl who goes around talking about how (except in cases of serious medical and accidental disfigurement) plastic surgery is a superficial fix to a deeper problem.
I always feel like shit when I say it, not because I don’t believe it but because I know I’m not supposed to believe it, let alone say it.
I know I’m supposed to say “more power to her/you/whomever!” That’s the reaction I’m supposed to have. Sometimes I say that even though I don’t believe it. That’s the non-judgmental, non-controversial reaction. But deep down, if I’m being 100% honest and whether I like that I think it or not–if I know someone has had cosmetic surgery, I assume they’re wounded or broken.
I’ve got stained teeth from being a coffee drinker and a smoker for years and I won’t even let myself get veneers or anything. I’m some kind of cosmetic-manipulation ascetic.
Which begs the question: Is it ME who has the deeper problem?
It’s a valid question, Becky. Definitely my lady friend felt a certain internal inadequacy that she wanted to address. We discussed it many times. She was a sharp one, and not at all prone to the type of vapid cosmetic behavior people associate with plastic surgery. Her personality was not like that at all. She knew what it meant to get them, and for the first few weeks she was so embarrassed by it that she wore many layers of clothing to cover them up.
But in the long run it helped her self confidence. It was a well-reasoned decision that was not made lightly. It took a lot of courage for her to do it, and she had to deal with personal demons of seeming shallow and weak for making that choice.
Would we rather be the kind of people who don’t care about such superficial things? Yes. Are we? Not always.
I think if you can stare those demons in the face and admit them and actually have the strength to do something constructive about it, you’ve made the right decision. Or if it helps with your public image as a celebrity/artist. If you do it because your boyfriend wants you to look like a porn star, it might be somewhat misguided.
A maybe unexpected and atypical perfectionist’s reaction. Rather than respond by perfecting the exterior, I expect myself to BE the person who doesn’t care about superficial things. The criticism I subject other people to is nothing compared to the kind I lay on myself.
Probably also has something to do with my hang-ups about things I perceive to be false or artificial in general.
At any rate, though, I couldn’t do it. I would feel worse about myself, I think, not better. I would have failed myself on the account that mattered to me, which is, I suppose, all that should matter to anyone, no matter how many critics are running around.
I mean, that’s just the veneers. I’ve never wanted a boob job. My boobs are small, but so am I–mass-wise, not height-wise. I would look funny as hell with some big rack. Plus, they’d get in my way when I played pool.
I’m against plastic surgery. I don’t think getting a boob job is punk rock. I believe there’s an incredible amount of pressure on women. I find it to be incredibly sad. Having said that, I’m glad that I’m a writer and not in an industry where my “success” is to a large extent based on how I look. (Writers, for the most part, are not very good looking.) But the plastic surgery thing bothers me–the justifications, etc. I think the more it becomes the norm, the more important it is to speak out against it. I’m in the minority, I know. But so what. I think it’s crazy and sad to spend money on physically altering your body through surgical means.
@Richard – Thanks for the feedback. I’ve given this a great deal of thought and your words are useful to me. I also think the anecdote about your friend is really valuable. I’ve heard complaints about the feel of artificial breasts, and I was kind of looking for that kind of testimony from you. But this was useful as well.
@Becky – I totally see where you’re coming from. I’ve been on both sides of the fence in this debate and I totally think what you’re saying is valid. I tried teeth whitening for a while – I accidentally won an $850 special teeth whitening thing at an auction for $50. (I wrote my name down as the opening bid to get other people to bid. You’d think this would have a taught me a valuable lesson, but no. This exact same faulty logic is how I ended up with a $100 Shrinky Dink chandelier lamp when I went to an auction at my boys’ school. I’m pretty sure I’ve finally learned.) I went ahead with it because I had it. They made molds of my teeth and made these special things that fit on them perfectly and gave me this super high powered teeth whitening gel that comes in little tubes that are similar to Epoxy. This was my reward for quitting smoking. It actually hurt my gums though, so I gave up on it after only a week (it was supposed to be 2 weeks). My heart wasn’t really in it.
I think there’s something to be said about a nice smile. Nobody wants to admit it but looks matter.
Looks fucking matter. The debate about whether they should or shouldn’t is besides the point.
A great smile gets you jobs; it gets you interviews; it gets you dates. And so fucking what? I mean, you don’t have to have a great smile to get a great job. There are plenty of people who don’t have a great smile who have outstanding jobs. But first impressions last forever and ever and ever. You can’t unring a bell. So if a person wants to enhance their chances in these arenas in life, more power to them.
And if they don’t, more power to them also.
@Victoria – I hear what you’re saying, I think. I can’t speak for Storm Large, but I got the impression she was using the term “punk rock” loosely – more to convey that the amount of intense pain you have to sign up for is pretty hardcore. I’m not sure she was saying that breast implants make you more a part of the Punk Rock counterculture. But really, you’d have to ask her.
I know people with breast implants. I know people without – some of whom want breast implants, some of whom do not. I know people with naturally large breasts who are saving their pennies for a breast reduction. I know people who have had a breast removed due to cancer and have had a new one built. I know people who don’t give a shit either way. I also know people – myself included – who are covered in tattoos. Who spend $100 every six weeks to re-dye their hair. Who whiten their teeth.
My point is: my personal opinion is that body modification of all sorts is a personal choice. And I don’t think the stuff that is permanent (relatively speaking) should be entered into lightly and without a great deal of thought and meditation. But, at the end of the day, it’s not my body. And I think that if you enter into it after some solid self-reflection, you’re probably making the right choice. And I also think that what a person does to his or her body is none of my business.
Feedback about feel: No problem. But with most guys I would say if they are touching the breasts of a willing participant they are ahead of the game. Specifically with augmentation, a lot of the feel has to do with the exercises. I’ve known one other pair that weren’t as soft but still there was no problem from my side. They are definitely not as soft, but the real fail is when they don’t move, or if they are above the muscle. I think that might be different. A pair of skin-covered softballs is not very sexy.
And yes, Gloria, your point is valid. It’s no one else’s business.
As for perceived pressure on women, well there is pressure out there on all of us. For a variety of different reasons. And where do you draw the line on “procedures”? In most cases, orthodontic work is done for cosmetic reasons. So is it poor form to have braces? Would you rather your teeth be pointing six different ways every time you smile at someone? No. Somehow braces are acceptable but breast implants are less so. Is there a bodily enhancement rulebook I missed?
Fortunately, as we’ve pointed out several times, these are personal decisions. We all do the best we can in the situations we find ourselves in. I don’t know if it’s true that most writers are not good-looking, but I’m certainly going to do my best to look great the next time I’m out promoting a book. It certainly can’t hurt. When I’ve been on TV shows or panels at writers conferences, the best looking writers seem to get a lion’s share of the attention. True, if you write a ridiculously good book, it’s going to sell with or without help from the author. But for those of us who haven’t quite hit the big time, all other things being equal, a charismatic author who’s able to sell himself can sure help the cause.
Point taken!
I suppose I’m wary, coming from Newport Beach where statistically speaking, something like 35-40 % of women get breast implants. So I’m a bit of a reactionary when it comes to those kind of things, having lived in that environment. So I don’t see it as a brave choice, even with the physical pain.
I actually liked the interview with Storm–liked her, and the spirit of her song that’s posted on TNB. At least she’s trying to speak boldly about womanhood, etc. I think, ultimately, we’re probably more on the same page than anything else.
TNB is chock full of good looking writers! Breast implants or no… Ha!
We are a sexy lot, Zara. We should do a TNB 12 month calendar. Woot!
Pierced ears are the most permanent alteration I have going and half the time, I consider letting them close up. Why I should be so protective of my body in this way when I smoke, drink, and avoid exercise like the plague is beyond me.
Part of the problem with the teeth whitening thing for me is that I broke off the bottom third of my two front teeth doing a faceplant on concrete, so the bottom part of my front teeth are not real and wouldn’t whiten. They’d have to be replaced to match the whitened teeth and probably other pains in the ass and at extra cost and blah blah blah.
Though having those chipped teeth fixed, along with orthodontic work, has functional and obvious health-related implications. At least that’s where I put the line. Granted, you could say that breast implants are health-related in that they raise self-esteem and more confident people are healthier people, etc. But, avoiding stretching the definition to degrees of removal from primary health implications, health-related is the difference between reconstructive/remedial and cosmetic for me. I had non-enameled tooth exposed really close to the root. Had to get that covered up to keep worse things from happening to those two teeth.
That is, I don’t think the line is totally arbitrary. You won’t have any loss of function in your breasts if you don’t get implants; they are where they are supposed to be and do what they’re supposed to do. There is at least some question, some sense of “optional” there. Not having implants doesn’t put you at risk for anything but less-than-perky boobs. It’s a situation where the risk of getting them is in fact more than the risk of not getting them. Maybe that’s part of the distinction.
Okay, that sounds slightly accusatory. Not my intent. Just trying to answer the sort of semantic, philosophy-of-plastic-surgery question you posed. “A person” would probably have been better than “you.”
@ Gloria – I’ve wanted to do a calendar for years. I think it’d be cool and funny in an ironic sort of way. And Marni can sell them at her kiosk.
Getting a boob job is not punk rock. Saying that getting a boob job is punk rock, is punk rock.
@Becky – you didn’t sound accusatory at all. I agree that the line isn’t totally arbitrary. There are varying degrees of risk and prioritization. Nonetheless, sometimes those reasons can be really personal and, as you mention, a healthy self image can be just as important to your overall health as healthy teeth.
@Greg – I would totally go in for that calendar. Maybe Laura Domela could do it for us? We could use the proceeds to fund the new imprint. It’s perfect! (Do you like how I’m using the royal “we” as if someone somewhere enlisted me to sit on the board of The Nervous Breakdown?)
The fact that we’re having this conversation, and that this isn’t exactly the forum where you would expect to find a lot of support for the idea, means there is no consensus for what constitutes “acceptable” or even “punk rock” body alterations.
I think Becky’s point of view is the most commonly-held. But even with optional or elective surgery the line is movable. For instance, I didn’t have braces until I was 30. My teeth were somewhat crooked but not overly so. The reason I chose to do it was because my bottom jaw didn’t lengthen properly and I had an overbite of maybe 3/8″. I knew when I visited the orthodontist he would recommend orthognathic surgery, and in fact it’s the reason I wanted braces in the first place.
The braces were $4000 alone. The surgery would cost another $10K. I didn’t have $10K, but the orthodontist assured me my medical insurance would pay for that part of it because misaligned upper and lower teeth could conceivably cause TMJ. But he knew and I knew that the point of the braces and the surgery was almost 100% cosmetic. The insurance company rejected the claim three times before they approved it.
Anyway, the difference in my face post-surgery was dramatic. Without trying to sound melodramatic, it changed my life. I understand that I should have found confidence and social skills from my inner self, instead of altering my face, but here we’re back to that body/mind argument again. For me the view of myself as a human was tied to the idea that I was unattractive. So I changed what I didn’t like. And man, it physically hurt like hell.
I would definitely agree that I was “broken” before I made the choice. But I would also argue that if it’s possible to repair something broken in the mind, the choice to have the surgery did it. However you choose to measure it, everything about my life is different now. So whether we are talking about fitting your chest with saline bags or cutting your jaw in half with a reciprocating saw, there is some body/mind connection that is real and, for some, immensely beneficial.
And, you know, maybe that’s just kind of the end of it. I like to look nice like anyone does, but I’ve never been overly concerned with or overly bothered by my appearance. There are things I wish maybe were different, but nothing that troubles me enough to make me willing to put myself at risk or in pain.
All my primping and preening and the place I can’t bear to be inadequate or unimpressive is in my head.
That is, I mean, that’s the thing I obsess about. My brain. That’s what my self-worth is tied to.
It’s safe to say everyone has insecurities, and maybe because of where mine lie, I just don’t get cosmetic surgery.
Like almost everything we discuss, it comes down to a personal decision. I felt like I had the intelligence part fairly covered but I did not like how painfully shy I was. The interesting thing is I didn’t just suddenly change after the braces came off. It took a couple of years of forcing myself into social situations, bars, parties, approaching women, lifting weights…and when I sold my first book I took a quantum leap forward. The combination of all those factors led to what was, for me, a metamorphosis.
We talked about Cartesian dualism before and the conversation applies here as well. To what degree does one’s comfort with his body influence his mind? Gaining that confidence has given me the chance to talk to more people and learn more things. Comfort with the body has freed the mind.
I can’t ever stop someone from thinking that it’s shallow to care about one’s personal appearance, attractiveness, whatever. And I’m with you…my self worth is tied to my thinking brain a hell of a lot more than my body. Still, though, for me they both count. It would have been silly for me to have accepted those faults and weaknesses for the rest of my life. It was a personal choice that paid handsome dividends. For others, it might have only been a band-aid that achieved nothing of real significance.
I’m still undecided on whether I would install a processor upgrade in my brain if I could. I can’t say the idea isn’t enticing…
I totally wouldn’t get a processor upgrade in my brain. Brain stuff is tricky. Sure, there are huge risks involved with any surgery, breast augmentation included, but I don’t want anyone fucking with my brain. Metaphorically or literally. You screw up my breasts and it’s likely not going to kill me. Maybe they’ll be all cockeyed, but I won’t be dead.
Do you know what I like about my body? (no, of course you don’t! And unfortunately I’m going to share!)
It’s the scars all over my hands.
Hardly any of them are from REAL danger or daring deed…but they make me look like I might…might…not be someone to mess with.
We talk incessantly about how breast surgery objectifies women, yadda yadda, men don’t go through that kind of stuff…but you can bet your life savings that if there was a penis augmentation surgery that actually worked, there wouldn’t be a free appointment slot on any doctor’s book for 6 months out.
And while we’re at it, ask me if I’m happy with the way my circumcision made me feel, how it changed my sense of self-worth.
But seriously, how can anyone have a go/no-go opinion about someone else’s body mutilation/repair/revision? If that person isn’t your kid, that is?
Of course it’s a personal choice.
I mean, that’s just the case. It’s legal and people will choose to do it or not.
I’m wondering if there is an objective reality underlying those kinds of decisions like there often are underlying any other decision a person makes.
Is it like choosing to be rocket scientist, where, among people who have made that decision, you will likely find incredible consistency of above-average mathematical aptitude and…I don’t know…a childhood fascination with space?
Is it like alcoholism, where you find an uncommon susceptibility to addiction of all types and greater propensity towards escapism?
Is it like bungee jumping, where you’re more likely to find people with extremely high tolerances for adrenaline?
I mean, yeah, it’s a choice, but it’s not JUST a choice.
I’ll never be able to escape, given the extreme and risky (and expensive) nature of the decision to have siginificant cosmetic surgery, that there must be some very powerful forces at work for which surgery is an outlet and not a fix. And if it’s just an outlet do those insecurities manifest in other ways?
Like, is the confidence gained from such a thing real? I mean, if someone has to have her implants removed, does she go right back to disliking herself and her body?
I’m not talking about thinking people are superficial. I don’t think I’ve used that word in the way you are using it. I used it once to mean, literally, “surface” or “on the exterior” not “shallow” as in a quality of character. I’ve also not used “vapid.”
I don’t think you totally get what I’m talking about seeing in people who have had those kinds of major alterations. I see vulnerability, a wound. I’m not talking about passing judgment on people in the sense that cosmetic surgery tells me they are bad or inferior. It tells me there’s a seriously stressed joint–a tender spot–in there somewhere. I’m saying I don’t think the surgery makes it go away.
dwoz, I don’t have a go/no-go opinion on other people having plastic surgery. I can’t imagine a more pointless stance.
I’m saying I can’t escape what my intuition tells me it means when they do.
@dwoz – I think your example of circumcision is absolutely brilliant. In 1975, the American Academy of Pediatrics stated ““There is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn.” Yet! Yet!!! The majority of little boys born in the U.S. (and probably other places, too, but I’m not going to bother researching that) are circumcised. And I’m positive that these boys are circumcised in households where people who are anti-body modification live. But it’s the same thing. Worse even, in my opinion, because your subjecting a helpless infant to a surgery that he doesn’t even need straight out of the gate just because it looks prettier? According to who?
I did not circumcise my boys because, again, I think these things come down to personal choice. If, later, they decide that they are not pleased with how their uncircumcised penises look, they are welcomed to go do whatever they want to them. They can Bedazzle them for all I care. My point is: I never felt like it was my choice. It’s theirs.
For the record, Richard was the one who used the word vapid.
@Becky – what I hear you saying is that breast implants are a way of announcing to the world that you have – or at one point had – some thing about you that was not okay. It’s a way of not making yourself less flawed, but, in fact, highlighting the fact that you are – or were – quite flawed. Is that right?
I think my motivation for getting implants, if we’re being honest (we are being honest, right?) is that I’m not ready for my body to be saggy. I want my outside appearance to be more inline with the youthfulness that I feel inside. It feels incongruous. I’m not overweight by any stretch of the imagination, but when I put on ten or fifteen pounds, it all goes to my gut and my hips and my belly protrudes more than my bustline. I look swayback. It makes me really uncomfortable and actually draws attention to me in a way that I am not okay with. I’m out here in the dating world (well, technically, though, as you know, I’m not currently practicing 🙂 ) and I admit that I want greater access to a wider variety of options when I finally decide to land. It’s like Tawni once said: Men don’t want to fuck my beautiful soul. And men don’t want to fuck a swayback lady whose nipples point downward. And people can call me out on this all they want to. But, if you’re a lady and you’re calling me out on this – especially if you’re a single hetero woman in mainstream American culture who is actively dating – then hold your comments for one second and answer me this: are you wearing makeup right now? Do you have on fashionable clothing? Are you wearing a bra? If yes, does it have any padding? An underwire? Do you own one pair of high heels and, if yes, do you wear them on dates? Now, let me ask you why you look this way. People change how they look to attract mates all the time. Who gets to decide where “normal” stops and pathology starts? There is a REASON peacocks have such beautiful feathers, and it’s not so that braless, makeupless hippies can wear them in their damn hair!
Well, no. I don’t think people mean to advertise. I think they genuinely want to fix what’s making them uncomfortable. I just think it ends up being an advertisement. Secondarily.
If people know about it, anyway.
Though I will point out, though I am wearing make up, I didn’t go under general anesthesia to put it on.
It also comes off.
As do my shoes. And I will not be lectured at work for unprofessional dress for not wearing breast implants, but I might for not wearing dress shoes or reasonable clothes.
All those things you mention about who men don’t want to fuck is a solid 90% of the reasons why I think men, save a few good ones scattered around, are wretched beasts. Just fuckin’ awful critters most of the time.
Easy for me to say, I suppose, since I’ve already got one, but I assure you, it was my opinion even before I had him.
But my man-hating is not the point here.
The point is, if there is a man out there who does want to fuck your beautiful soul, you wouldn’t want to miss him because you were too busy shopping your boobs around. I don’t know. I’m not trying to unconvince you. I just have a profound and, it seems, intractable consternation and failure to understand when it comes to plastic surgery.
So what if plastic surgery is palliative instead of therapeutic to the underlying emotional issue?
When I mix myself a nice five-o’clock-Friday drink, it’s certainly not going to do a damn thing for “the list” that makes me WANT a five-o’clock-Friday drink. That list is still going to be there on Saturday. But so what. I indulge in a bit of escapism.
Additionally, I question whether there’s really that much emotional loading going on, for a lot of people. You state that you’d not undergo cosmetic surgery, because for you that would represent a pretty desperate state of affairs. Who’s to say others share that?
You claim non-judgment, but you still pattern your reasoning onto them. i.e., “fixing this via surgery would represent a real emotional shitstorm for ME, ergo they must be experiencing some kind of emotional shitstorm.”
You haven’t said that, Becky. As Gloria pointed out above, I used the word “vapid.” But other people are reading this and undeniably some people do take that stance. Probably I could have chosen my words better. In this particular case I’m also speaking to those who are reading but not commenting.
And of course one could argue that it’s not a choice at all. We’re led to these places by genetics and environmental influences. Once we start down that road it’s not a big leap to outright determinism.
When we are talking about self, surely we mean the combination of body and mind. It’s an interesting question to pose, if you remove the body ornaments, does the mind revert to its previous state? In the case of irreversible changes, like mine, it’s ultimately a thought experiment because the body is irrevocably altered. I am this body now, so the confidence is as real as it gets, I suppose. What is the source of any confidence?
In a way this discussion boils down to a sort of genetic lottery. You can take the position that you are born with a set of attributes, and from there you ought to find your way in the world based on that initial configuration. Or you can choose to not accept those initial conditions. The discussion doesn’t have to be limited to artificial body ornaments. And even with the example of your teeth, you have altered them with coffee drinking and smoking. Would the choice to bleach them back to their initial color be artificial or just countering one set of behaviors with another? If you clog your arteries with poor eating habits for years and then take cholesterol medicine or get a stint to counteract those effects, is the only difference that you’re saving your life versus having a brighter smile?
I can see where someone would view obvious and significant plastic surgery as a physical manifestation of a interior wound. Just as smoking or drinking or engaging in obsessive or destructive behavior are also physical examples of emotional wounds or inadequacies. We reveal our inner selves with observable behavior nearly every waking minute of every day. I mean that’s the beauty of having these bodies, isn’t it? Decoding the symbols? Seeing the patterns? Having these discussions?
I don’t think my emotional shitstorm needs to enter into it.
As Richard states above, it’s an instance, at least as far as breast augmentation goes, of willfully risking one’s life to have one’s nippled sliced open, the pectoral muscles filleted, enduring incredible pain for months (from the sounds of things not nearly as enjoyable as a 5pm drink), all to make oneself acceptable to others (a.k.a. oneself, but why would you be unhappy with yourself unless you had some sense that others were unhappy with you?).
That, to me, represents an extreme state of affairs. I mean, you’re having your breasts stuffed like a turkey.
I don’t think it’s a subjective thing to say that’s pretty fucking extreme. Storm Large thinks it’s extreme. I know of no peacocks that do that.
And I think you underestimate my empathetic/intuitive capabilities. Just because I use my logical faculties a lot doesn’t mean I use them when trying to discern the emotional/psychological states of other people.
I was wondering when you would finally come around to mentioning the smoking. I think it is safe to say that it’s as good an example as any of the dangers of doing potentially irreparable things to one’s body in order to please other people. I made an attempt to please people 16 years ago and now I’m addicted. The smoking itself is the wound now. Though I may beg excuse for the fact that I was only 16 when I started smoking, and trying to impress other people is what 16 year-olds do, for better or worse.
I’m still not having my breasts stuffed like a Turkey.
I’m not a piece of meat.
Gloria wouldn’t finish whitening her teeth because it fried her gums. I’m not willing to hurt myself to impress other people. Not anymore. I’ve already got this smoking thing to deal with.
@richard…
The genetic lottery is a good point. In many ways too, our bodies pretty well reflect who we are from a “nurture” standpoint too.
I mean, people want to have the body of a hard-core hunter-warrior, with ripped muscles and taut healthy skin, but they work in a fucking cubicle 9 hours a day and sit in a car for another 2 hours.
So in many ways, the exercise and diet regimen they go through is just as much a lie. You’re NOT a hunter-warrior, that’s why you don’t have a hunter-warrior body.
You get that body by tracking a stag for days, striking in the instant, and then running after it for 15 miles until it drops, then heft it’s 120lb carcass onto your back and run 30 miles home.
For me to hop on my Stairmaster in my living room is just like getting surgical work done, in a figurative sense. It’s a lie.
But, unfortunately, I can’t carry that Stag into the town clerk’s office and drop in on the counter and say “this is to pay my property taxes. A noble Stag, most excellent!”
The line ain’t so easily drawn.
I’ve never thought of smoking as being an ’emotional wound’ just a nasty addiction.
I hate what it does to my teeth and lungs and yet it is so so hard to kick. Having said that, given my awful ‘flu I think this maybe the time to try and throw them away.
Becky, I’m with you on the plastic surgery. It frightens me to think about it. I’ve often thought how nice it would be to have a fantastic set of breasts, instead of looking like a twelve year old adolescent boy! But I’m far too chicken to go under the knife or even consider it. I also have to admit that I question why women would do this unless it is to gain approval from other people. Like I say, I’d love to be able to fill out a dress properly but not enough to actually do something about it.
On the other hand, I never even question women who get a breast reduction. That seems entirely fine to me. Hypocritical? Probably.
As I get older, I do think about ways of trying to keep myself looking okay. I am too scared to even get a shot of Botox. I wish I wasn’t but hey.
I had a (brief) relationship with a woman who had had breast reduction surgery. I didn’t know her before. Whoever did it botched the job — she had serious keloid scars on the undersides of her breasts. I’m OK with just about anything like that, so it didn’t bother me. But it wasn’t pretty. Sure, her clothed shape must have improved. But when the clothes came off, there were the scars.
As for me, I chipped one of my incisors when I was 4 or 5. I don’t know why my mother didn’t just get it done when I was small, but she didn’t. As an adult I have resisted everybody’s attempts to get me to cap it, I think mostly because I felt as though they (the women) wanted me to fit some image of the man they were with. I’m aware that it’s unattractive, but it’s me. Even so, having finally found the right partner, I expect I’d give in if she asked. She takes me as I am, which is what makes the difference.
As for being bald — no way would I get transplants or anything like that. I don’t much like being bald but, yeah, it’s me.
@Don – if some amazing new tonic that grew back all your natural hair were invented, would you use it? No side effects. No damage. No scars. One easy dose and BAM! your 20 year old head was back just like before. Would you do it?
Don,
Having met you and the lovely Ruth recently – I can say you are absolutely perfect, chipped tooth or not.
Perfect!
In defense of breast reductions, exactly because of (feminist Becky emerges, warpaint and all, throwing around man-hatisms) the tendency of men not to want to fuck anyone’s beautiful soul and the way it has shaped and been shaped by popular culture, my feeling is that most women with large breasts that do not cause them significant difficulty wouldn’t get them reduced.
They won the boob lottery.
My impression is that most of the women getting reductions do it because their chest size causes them trouble, often medical/spinal. By God if they can ever find a medical use for breast augmentation in people with otherwise perfectly normal breasts, I will shut my mouth.
We’re also talking about risk assessment and probability here. It’s not like when you go under the knife you are incurring an overwhelming risk of death or nerve damage. All surgery contains risk, of course, especially when general anesthesia is involved. For any surgery you weigh the risks with the potential benefits to gather data. Then you make a choice. I’ve jumped out of an airplane before. I’ve driven my car at speeds far beyond what most would consider safe. I’ve had my wisdom teeth extracted and had a broken finger fixed and had the jaw surgery. I don’t smoke, but I drink more than I should. I’m making decisions every day that affect my life expectancy and quality of life.
Breast augmentation involves risk, but the fears people speak of are somewhat overblown. It’s just not that risky. My jaw surgery was more risky regarding the possibility of nerve damage and infection.
There is an element of public opinion in a discussion like this that doesn’t necessarily match the facts. And breast augmentation receives more press than orthognathic surgery, so people have stronger opinions about it. Like “stuffed like a turkey” is meant to evoke a certain emotional response. The actual procedure is a little more precise than that.
It wasn’t meant to evoke an emotional response. It WAS my emotional response.
With the exception of, potentially, Gloria, I’d be willing to wager that I’ve been under the knife more than anyone involved in this conversation, including 6 jaw surgeries (exploratory, extractive, and reconstructive) NOT related to wisdom teeth.
I’m not naive about the realities of surgery, jaw or otherwise.
Have you ever watched a breast augmentation on TV? Liposuction? I mean, they’re more gentle than with a turkey, but not by much.
I was under the knife when I had my appendectomy and after the accident. So you win.
But I’m will to be bet I’ve been under the gun more than you.
I wasn’t sure if you had to have other surgeries related to that accident or not.
The 6 jaw surgeries plus two for wisdom teeth plus one on my knee plus one on my skull when I was an infant. I don’t remember that last one, but it still counts. Technically.
So 10.
You probably have been under the gun more than me, but I assure you that you have not FELT like you were under the gun more than me.
Panic is a lifestyle.
I think we all have ‘acceptable’ forms of surgery in our minds.
While personally I think you should only have surgery when you really need it, I understand why you would have it when you think you need it.
I know women who have lost their breasts to cancer, who have had them reconstructed and to me that seems perfectly reasonable even though there is no medical need for them to do so.
But I don’t understand why someone who has slightly wonky or undersize (what does that even mean??) breasts would go to the trouble of getting a new pair.
This is a different issue, but for some reason I’m thinking about it now…But I did a story a few years ago when I was a journo, on girls who have a a genetic condition whereby their vagina has not formed properly. This is, as you can imagine, pretty hard for adolescent girls (that’s when it’s usually discovered) to deal with. But because the surgery they need is not life-saving, it’s deemed as elective.
That kind of surgery I have no problem with. Reshaping for the hell of it, I kind of do.
I meant tattoo gun. I was trying to make a clever play on words.
Panic is a lifestyle. There’s your shirt. Wait…don’t I already owe you a shirt?
I’ve been shot at. Twice.
the word “orthognathic surgery” sounds like it’s being pronounced by someone who needs orthognathic surgery.
Doesn’t count Matt. Not unless you were hit and needed surgery.
See there? Matt has literally been under the gun more than either of us. Though I did have a gun held on me once. No! Twice. That’s right. The second time was an accident. I was living with a policeman and I was climbing in my bedroom window because I forgot my keys and I came out of my bedroom and starting walking down the hall and there he was, gun drawn. I didn’t know he was home on his lunch break and he didn’t know I’d skipped school.
Does being dead for about a minute and a half count?
See, Gloria.
I wouldn’t even make that connection because I have exactly zero tattoos.
My favorite thing is to talk about getting them then never do it.
Descend raptors! “She’ll get a tattoo, but not big ol’ tittays!”
Not so fast. I hain’t got the tattoo yet.
dwoz, not as a surgery, no. Unless you were dead on the operating table.
I was afraid of that. Dead lacks cred.
Gloria — when I first started to get seriously bald, I think I would have been all over that magic tonic. So I’m not taking some kind of morally superior position here (not that you said I was). Now, probably not. Don’t like it, but am used to it.
As for unnecessary surgery, I have my own story. As a boy, I tripped with a filled wheelbarrow and a handle crunched my nose. In our small town there was no ear-nose-throat specialist so the inside of my nose never healed properly and I could barely breathe through it. In college a doctor at the health service said he couldn’t do elective surgery but if I’d just go get in a basketball game and deliberately take an elbow to the nose, he would. I didn’t.
I used to worry about being the victim of a robbery and having duct tape or a gag closing up my mouth — that I’d die because I wouldn’t get enough air through my nose. So in 2001 when I was headed back to what was recently at war zone on Bougainville, and was going to have to pass through an area where white people were not welcome, to get to the place where I was welcome, I got worried all over again. What if the crazy rebels (as opposed to the not-crazy rebels) grabbed me and gagged me and I died?
I asked my doctor about getting my nose fixed so I wouldn’t die and he said, No problem, we’ll get your nose roto-rooted as a “quality of life” issue. It happened. Insurance paid for it. I didn’t get gagged. I’m not sure I did the right thing, but now my nose works better.
I was dead on the helicopter when I was MEDEVACed to the hospital. My heart had stopped and they did the paddle thingy to me. I also had a collapsed lung and they stuck some tubes in and shit. Removed my spleen. Etc. Etc. My point is: Dead TOTALLY has credibility. It’s just not germane to the topic at hand.
@Becky — my breast-reduction friend said that they were truly enormous and caused her all sorts of trouble, especially with clothing, backaches, and so on. She said that they were the result of some botched hormone therapy that came her way when she was young. I can’t remember the reason for the therapy, which involved massive doses of estrogen around puberty.
Well there’s your answer right there, Gloria. It would seem that the contemplated breast augmentation is just a compensation for your missing spleen. You’re having spleen separation anxiety.
There. cured.
I think it’s completely germane. When you’ve taken a trauma like that, you naturally and rightly re-assess your world and your position within it. And no options are off the table, whichever answer you arrive at requires no apology or supporting documentation.
The only thing I’d add to the discussion, is that avoidance of the lowest bidder is probably the correct path. There is ample evidence walking around out there that breast augmentation requires skill and an impeccable aesthetic sense in the practitioner. The very most successful procedure is the one where you can’t tell there was one.
The reason everyone started tossing out their life-threatening (or life-ended, as the case may be) scenarios is because Rich said that there was a lot of misinformation about surgical risks, and I said I wasn’t among the misinformed since I’d had tons of surgery.
So, you know. In that context, while being dead is certainly more life threatening than 10 successful surgeries, it doesn’t really give you much in the way of O.R. experience points.
That, I think, is why Gloria said it was not germane.
*raises hand*
Not to take all the awesome, but I, too, have been dead.
I was dead before I was even born.
No. Seriously.
I was.
Well, fortunately, I like my breasts just like they are. I’m not planning on getting any work done. My abs, though…I have entirely the wrong kind of six-pack abs.
We should form a living-dead club. You can only join if you’ve ever been dead.
we tried that before.
I can’t believe you’re trying to resuscitate that idea.
People were dying to join.
OOOkay. I do not play the pun game. You’ll have to find Simon.
Great interview, Gloria!
Wow. You, Storm and Quenby altogether – it’s a riot!
You would have rounded the group out quite nicely, Zara. 🙂
First off, congrats and great job Gloria!
I found some of Storm’s answers unintelligible or redundant. She’s definitely huge in terms of her expressiveness.
When she mentioned not knowing if someone has borderline personality and you pointed out that it eventually comes out I guffawed and thought of me.
I also thought from this interview, a person with borderline personality disorder, that Storm Large came off to me as if she definitely has borderline personality disorder. But I ‘m not a psychiatrist. I just saw a lot of the old me in her. When I was a musician and sex was just sex. It smacks of self-destruction. My opinion again.
I loved Storm on the competition Rockstar Supernova and I love the whole concept of the show and I wish they’d bring it back. I would’ve definitely picked her. She would have shot to stardom with that whole package. In the end I wonder if that show was just a concept and a big joke cuz I never heard of Supernova again.
I relate to the good press bad press. I got that all the time. But it’s just local rags and local music critics that are little wannabe musicians. The amount of people that take that shit seriously is much smaller than you think. I’m sure the people saw the rebuttal cuz they’re the ones reading that crap anyway. Pettiness is rampant in this world and being as large as she is (no pun intended) she comes across as someone that walks around with a megaphone.She says it like it is. That’s offensive to people.
I can also relate to not knowing what to say if you’re not a parent. Cuz until I was a parent I wouldn’t say what I would say now. Let’s just say I plan to tell my daughter the plain fucking truth about sex and boys and get her on BC early. I plan to over arm her with information and then there’s not much else I can do. I will protect her the best way that I can. Being a parent changes everything and there is no way to know it without going through it.
Back to Gloria! I think you asked great questions and your follow-up and subject change maneuvers where excellent. My only criticism is the number of adjectives in that clothing to person sentence in the beginning. I would have made it two sentences, but fuck me.
XXXXOOOTammy
I always seem to leave incorecct or politically incorrect comments – BPD
Anyway, I hugely proud of you and I loved this interview. It made me so nostalgic. I always make things about me. But that’s truly because of therapy, You’re not supposed to give advice your supposed to relate your experience.
I can’t wait for Storm’s Book. I almost took a writing seminar with Pamela Des Barres and I was so fucking excited and they cancelled it for lack of interest. I am so bummed.
I can’t wait for Part Two. I love unpretentious rockers. Storm’s the real deal.
(: sorry tawni you get full credit forever.
xxxxxoxoxoxoxoxooxox
I love unpretentious anyone. LOL. 🙂
Part II will be up next Saturday. Please check back.
Thanks again, lady!
I agree with you 100% Tammy about the parent thing. Before, when I would see a parent in a store yelling at their kid, I’d be like, “That parent is such an asshole. Poor kid.” And now, after parenting Tolkien and Indigo (and Sierra, who is also Borderline) for so long, I’m now like, “That poor parent. They just worked all day and they just need to buy a damn loaf of bread!” But it changes it in other ways, too. I felt like Storm did a great job of answering this with honesty while acknowledging that she was out of her league because she wasn’t a parent. I found her answer very valuable still.
Clothing to person sentence? I’m not sure which one that is… 🙁
Thanks for reading, Tammy.
Damn, woman! This is so fun–even though I’m a bit player, it was entertaining as hell. Funnier still to read while not remembering two sentences of our afternoon. “Sniff butts.” REALLY, Q? Really???
Anyhoo, lucky for me I had a slightly sympathetic audience that day. Otherwise, Listi would be booting my ass for stupidity.
But about Storm, always earnest, always hilarious, always cuts right through the crap. She’s a gem and you captured the sparkle and allure in ways many people can’t. Except Laura; they always make an amazing team.
Go, Gloria!
Laura, Storm, and I would make the perfect trifecta, much like dick, coke, and a bed. 😉
Also: REALLY, Q? Really??? ha ha ha ha ha
You have no idea how painful it was to sit through an hour and fifteen minutes of audio, listening to myself talk and laugh. It was suffering, I tell you. Do I really laugh like that? Do I really, actually titter at every joke I make? Jesus…
Really cool interview, Gloria. Thanks for such a well-researched read. I like that the questions hit so many juicy topics, but more than anything, having had never heard of Storm before (sorry!), I was thoroughly fascinated with this interview.
One of my favorite qualities in a good music journalism piece is that, no matter what I know or think about the artist in question, the author makes it interesting. You’ve really done that nicely here, so I’m off to iTunes to listen to some of her stuff.
I’m very much looking forward to the next installment.
I also laughed out loud at this:
>>Whereas, I would look at them and they would have so many fucking piercings in their face, they looked like a god damned tackle box <<
Thanks for the compliment, Joe. But, really, it’s not like I sat down with Jessica Simpson and really got her to open up and say some brilliant, pithy stuff. This one was was easy because the subject being interviewed brought everything to the table and just handed it over. I just caught it on tape and did a helluva job transcribing. Storm’s the real deal.
Thank you so much for reading.
Bravo Gloria! I remember Storm from Rockstar. Looking forward to Part II.
Thanks, Lady Dame Cynthia. I appreciate you reading. 🙂
(P.S. Can one be a lady and a dame at the same time?)
I haven’t commented yet because I’m baffled by Storm’s bad-assness and because I can’t figure out why I’d never heard of her until you started talking about this interview.
Hey! You work in a cafe! You should come to my house and just make coffee!
No shit, dude.
Damn it! My comment to you nested wrong. Here it is again:
Baffled? Like, bewildered? Interesting. What do you mean?
Yeah, the coffee line was pretty funny.
Well, baffled, for one thing, like, I don’t even know what to say.
She rubbed ice on her butthole to attack someone.
I mean, I’ve got stories of bar/club violence, but nothing like that, Prince or no Prince.
Great read and interview, Gloria. I recall Storm from Rockstar and was always intrigued by her complex, and outspoken persona. She seems like the real deal. Can’t wait for part II. Stoked, even.
Hi Robert,
Thank you so much for reading. 🙂
Part II will be up soon. There’s more boob talk. As I was laying Part II into WordPress last night, I realized that either Storm or I have an
possibly unhealthyobsession with breasts, breast implants, boob talk, etc. (Hint: I’m pretty sure it’s not Storm.)[…] http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/ […]
Great interview Gloria. Though Ms. Large is obviously well- and out-spoken, you were quick with comebacks and smart comments that kept her engaged. “What do you do with that? Where do you put that?” – very astute and empathetic questions. Well, at least it shows you were listening…! And the “eight mile wide hands” comment would have made milk come out my nose, that is, if I had been drinking milk (wine out the nose just doesn’t conjure up the same image). I have put Storm At Dante’s on my bucket list. (: (Thanks Tawni; “stick smiley”, that’s FUNNIE G!!)
Thanks, Stubob.
Hey, I took that picture!
Excellent, excellent, excellent interview Gloria!
I want to look like Storm. I want to sound like Storm. I want to be Storm. Minus the suicidal mother.
Great stuff!
Thanks, Jessica. I appreciate you reading. 🙂
And yeah, Storm is pretty beautiful. In part two, she mentions that she’s nearly 41. She looks great. Not that she shouldn’t – 41 is not that old. I just found out today that Beck turned 40 last week. That’s like Peter Pan turning 40. I think 40 has got to be the new 20. That’s what I think.
Seriously? BECK is FORTY? But isn’t he wearing his Bar Mitvah suit? He looks like he just became a man (as in age thirteen!).
[…] part of the conversation picks up where part one left off, which was at the end of an anecdote involving Prince’s management team and […]
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